By Safeeyah Kazi
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The Big Picture
- Collider's Safeeyah Kazi talks with Aamir Khan, Kiran Rao, and Jyoti Deshpande for Lost Ladies.
- Lost Ladies is selected as India's official entry for 97th Academy Awards, highlighting female empowerment through film.
- During this interview, the trio discusses the importance of universal themes in storytelling and the potential for change through cinema.
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Film being used as a vehicle to incite change is a tale as old as time, and it is that very concept that titan of Indian cinema Aamir Khan, prolific director Kiran Rao, who has returned to the helm after over a decade, and producer Jyoti Deshpande have revived in their latest film Lost Ladies (Laapataa Ladies). The film captures the story of two brides who are accidentally mixed up on a train journey to their respective villages. What ensues thereafter is a journey of these two women simultaneously finding themselves as they wait to be found. A powerful narrative of female empowerment, the two brides are forced to question the only way of life they have ever known and ultimately find new courage to dream and challenge the deep-rooted patriarchal status quo.
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The film's unapologetically audacious and progressive take on female fortitude, which is delivered in an effortless satirical format, has led to the project being selected as India's official selection for the upcoming 97th Academy Awards. For Khan and Rao, it is not the first time the pair have witnessed a venture take flight internationally. The pair previously saw soaring success with period drama Lagaan which successfully landed an Oscar nomination for Best International Feature Film back in 2002. During an interview with Collider's Safeeyah Kazi, the trio unpacked the beating heart of Lost Ladies, the universal themes and struggles of women that will resonate internationally, subverting the norm and welding the compelling nature of film to spark real change.
‘Lost Ladies’ Marks Kiran Rao’s Return to Directing After Over a Decade
COLLIDER: Kiran, was there something really special about coming back to directing for a film about women, for women?
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KIRAN RAO: There absolutely was. Actually, it was the script that spoke to me on many personal levels, as well. I like to say that I myself was, in some ways, quite lost, and when the script came, it felt like a life raft suddenly, a way for me to explore lots of things that I personally have also been through, but in a very fun, engaging way about two girls on an adventure. So, it really spoke to me personally.
Did you feel more pressure attached to it because it's such a female-centric film, or did that just add to the excitement of it all?
RAO: It was just the reason I made it, honestly. I was so happy that themes and issues and things that I've been very passionate about were so organically woven into the story, and they were ripe and there for me to explore and have a lot of fun with. And actually, that was the only reason I wanted to make this film.
I love that. Aamir, for you as a producer, what was the moment you really knew you were working on a film that was about to bring about a lot of change?
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AAMIR KHAN: Well, I didn't know about whether I was so confident that my film would bring about change, because that's a bit presumptuous, but I fell in love with the script when I read it the first time. I was part of a script competition, I was the jury on that, and this is one of the scripts I read, which I really liked. Then, I was sure I wanted to make this film, and I was equally sure that I wanted Kiran to direct it. So, I immediately told her about the script, and then when she read it, she loved it as well. So, that's how the journey really started for us.
Amazing. We've had the pleasure as an audience of witnessing you do brilliant things behind the camera and in front of the camera. Which do you think really wields more force in terms of being able to incite change or provoke important conversations?
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KHAN: Both, really. I think when you're part of a film that is saying something important, whether you're acting in it or playing a different part in it, it's the same, really. I'm equally invested in the film, even if I'm not acting in it. If I'm producing it, I'm equally invested in it. What the film is saying is as important to me as a film that I'm acting in. But I fell in love with it the moment I read it, and then I was hoping it would turn out well, and I felt Kiran was the right director for this material. I knew she was looking for a script, as well, so it worked out really well, I think. I was so glad that Kiran liked it, took it on, and then made such a beautiful film out of it.
Jyoti, you've spoken a lot in the past about how this film really delivers an accessible narrative, especially for men. I think it's very encouraging of men to be allies with women, and you've spoken about there not being this man-bashing element, which I think is really important. How vital do you feel like the male narrative is as part of this story?
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JYOTI DESHPANDE: I think it's very important because if I look back at my own life, I faced many adversities to get here, and I look back at my father, who was such a wonderful influence in my life, and I probably owe everything to him, so he was an ally. My brother was an ally. Some other people were not allies along the way, but I went about my life with great positivity. I tend to see a glass half full rather than half empty, so I'd like to believe that rather than thinking that for every two men who are allies, four are non-allies, it’s the opposite. For every person who's trying to pull you down and who happens to be a man, there may be two others who are supportive.
I think you have to keep your eyes and ears open and help them to help you. I feel this film does that very, very beautifully. The men and the women in this, every little character has his or her own importance in the film, and that's Kiran’s craft and how masterfully she has played with every little character. One of the things that we heard in one of our screenings was that someone talked about how all the little characters in this are a bit like salt and pepper — without them, the food is not tasty at all. So, I would say male allyship is a great positive, and men and women around the world should sit up and look at it positively.
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Absolutely. You also rightfully described Lost Ladies as a satire with a meaningful narrative. As a producer looking at the film, how hard do you think it is to really strike that balance and deliver on it well?
DESHPANDE: I think satire is by far one of the most difficult genres to crack. And India being a diverse country with 27-odd languages, a film like this, to even be understood properly in India is difficult, let alone the rest of the world. But I think Kiran has it on point, Kiran along with Aamir Khan’s production process of testing and taking audience feedback and understanding whether the intent of the filmmakers is translated on screen, and a lot of tweaks they made at the editing stage, which has the film on point, I would say,
Kiran, there's a lot in this film, especially about the veil being a metaphor for so much more. I had a question, really as a viewer, which is that, of course, all of the women being veiled in the same color and same style was very important for the fact they all get mixed up, but was there a bit of a metaphor attached to that for women being painted with the same brush, as well, and just being seen as one blanket species rather than as individuals?
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RAO: There was a layer of that. Honestly, like you said, it's a tool to talk about many things. Of course, one of the things was about the choice of wearing the garment, the fact that it is used as a cloak of invisibility and protection by women who want that.
KHAN: Anonymity.
ROA: Anonymity and concealment, and almost an impediment by others who find it a problem. But it is, like you said, the fact that they were all in a similar kind of veil, a metaphor for how a lot of women don't have that choice. They are reduced to just a single way of life that they have to accept. They are conditioned. It is their only option. Also, their value is therefore reduced; it's just one of many other such women. So, therefore, a lack of identity in many ways. So, the film really speaks to the need for personal identity, freedoms, financial independence, the choices to dream, the opportunities to imagine your own future, which we feel are basic human rights that a lot of women do not have.
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DESHPANDE: And live with purpose, really. I think every woman has a right to find her own purpose, and that purpose need not necessarily only be tending to your family.
'Lost Ladies' Is a Tale of Female Empowerment
One of the characters that really subverts that idea in this film is, Manju, and she's just brilliant and powerful and also just so brilliantly funny. She has a really great line about how women are being “frauded” into helplessness. Who do you think Manju represents on the outside world?
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RAO: When Sneha [Desai] and I were talking about what we wanted to add to the script, this is one character that I felt very strongly was needed as a symbol of women who can live independently and happily on their own terms and, in a sense, define what they want from their lives. We wanted to show that you can be successful as an entrepreneur, as a single person, and be happy. I think one of the nicer things that she says is something that I've often thought about, like, “Can you be alone and be happy?” And she says, actually, one of those lines is, “If you learn to live by yourself, nobody can really affect you after if you can live happily on your own. It's like being happy within yourself almost.
DESHPANDE: She can represent you and me.
KHAN: [Laughs] Someone like Kiran and Jyoti.
DESHPANDE: No shame in admitting that!
RAO: No, a lot of us identify with her, for sure.
Absolutely.
KHAN: I do. I identify with her, as well.
That's brilliant! Aamir, you’ve spoken a lot about this film and how, universally, it has appeal because the themes go beyond one audience or one country, even. What do you think universal audiences, international audiences will be able to take most from this?
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KHAN: I think audiences from outside of India will get a pretty accurate peek into how things are in India. I think Kiran has been very accurate in depicting how things are back home, and so it's an intrinsically very Indian film. I think I would like people from all over the world to see how we are as Indians and to see us with all our beauty and our flaws. I'm really hoping that that's what's happening. I think audiences from different cultures are actually feeling that they can connect with it. They can really connect with the characters in the movie and the story. That's the beauty of actually watching a film from a different culture. You get to enjoy the differences, but you also get to enjoy and appreciate what's common. Actually, most things are common because we’re pretty similar as human beings; our desires and needs are pretty much similar across the globe. So, that's what I'm hoping, that they would see the similarities between different cultures and some differences, as well.
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Definitely. I think even from the sense of speaking to people, that message is definitely hitting home. A lot of people are finding they're able to relate to it in more ways than I think they probably anticipated going into the film, which is brilliant.
Related
'Lost Ladies' Review: Kiran Rao Crafts Social Commentary With Heart and Laughs | TIFF 2023
Sparsh Shrivastava is spectacular in this comedy of errors.
Another thing, Aamir, that you said, which I've really loved, is that you said this kind of film has sparked a little bit of a revolution. Do you believe that cinema can really induce a long-lasting change?
KHAN: I do believe that. I think that all of us get affected with stories, not just cinema. I think all creative work affects us. If you listen to a song, it affects you deeply sometimes what the words are saying. Poetry affects us. A good painting can affect us in many ways. Similarly, a film or a story, a book, all of these things affect us. I think as individuals, as human beings, what gets us the most is a story. If I have to tell you something and make my point, if I explain it very, very technically, you will get it, but if I tell it to you in a story form, you will emotionally get it.
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You're invested in it.
DESHPANDE: Absolutely.
KHAN: Yeah. So, I think cinema is a very strong medium, along with other creative mediums, and it has the potential to affect people deeply.
DESHPANDE: Very well said.
RAO: I agree.
Jyoti, what do you think are the key ingredients that have made this film a success and are continuing to really help it resonate?
DESHPANDE: I think we're already doing that. I think the film is so beautiful that all we need to do is hold our screenings, talk to people about it, and encourage those who can't attend our screenings to discover it on Netflix. I think whoever has watched it has found something in the film that resonates with them in whatever country or culture they are from. Without our encouragement, they want to talk about it. So, I think it's a hidden gem that the world needs to discover. We've got it on its way and it needs to find its momentum.
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‘Lost Ladies’ is India’s Official Selection For the Oscars
Definitely, and I think it is. Kiran, obviously, the film has been put forward as India's official selection for the Oscars, and it's been put forward for a BAFTA, as well, which is brilliant. As two of the biggest international awards in the industry, does this film signify for you that the world is ready for real change, and this is just sparking that fire?
RAO: Fingers crossed. But I feel the world is so ready for women's stories. I think it's about time that we had many, many more voices, diverse voices, that occupy the international film stage. What the Oscars and BAFTAs really do is give us a platform to actually amplify these voices.
KHAN: It means attention to your film, especially if you get nominated or you win.
RAO: Exactly.
KHAN: That many more people across the globe will be interested in watching your film.
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RAO: Exactly. It's really important that films by women and about women finally get their due, get their place in the sun.
And as a female director, do you feel like you shoulder some of that responsibility in the industry to make sure these kinds of films are being made and made well?
RAO: On a personal level, I absolutely feel that. As a director and producer, I want to work towards having more interesting women characters, championing more filmmakers, having more space for women in my crew. It's something that organically I feel, and I will strive to do. But I feel it's also something that, when you zoom out as an industry, we should focus on and be more proactive about, because I think there's a lot more space for women in every field of filmmaking.
I love that. Aamir, you did a screen test for Inspector Manohar, but ultimately you all agreed on Ravi Kishan for the role, and he was brilliant, as well, but what was it really about the character that you were actually interested in from the outset?
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KHAN: Oh, well, I thought he was a very, very attractive character. He was someone who was very gray, a highly corrupt person, but as we discovered at the end of the film, there's still hope in him. He has the ability to be touched by something that's so sincere and so beautiful, and when he understands what the girl is going through.
RAO: No spoilers.
KHAN: Okay. [Laughs] I really loved the character, and I was very keen to play it, but I was aware of the challenges with me being such a big star in a film which otherwise doesn't have big stars. It would kind of disbalance the film, and that's really the reason why Kiran and I decided not to go with my casting.
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I think his story is one of my favorites in the film, just because of that moment at the end where there’s that flip, and it almost feels like a flip in personality, really. But really, it shows you there's depth and the ability for anybody to stand up at any time and say, “Actually, no, this isn't okay.”
RAO: Exactly. The potential for change. Even a small change in perspective. I think it opens up that thought in anyone that a small step or a small gesture can really make a difference, and we could try doing that while staying roughly the same.
KHAN: I also feel that what this film tells us is that when you are really doing something with a lot of sincerity and with a lot of honesty and with a lot of positivity and hope, even people who otherwise may not have stood by you get affected by it.
RAO: The most cynical people.
KHAN: Even a cynical person you know feels, “You know, this time I'm going to stand by her. I need to help her at this time.” So people who are sincere and passionate about something should not lose hope. They will be surprised by someone who they don't expect.
RAO: Exactly.
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DESHPANDE: I vouch for this. And this is all part of the phrase “the universe conspires.”
KHAN: It’s Shyam’s emotion, which actually touches him and makes him do what he does, which is quite unexpected for him.
RAO: Because also, we're all, in the audience, immune to a lot of the problems. We've become accustomed to so many problems, but I think there’s space in all of us to be moved to change. Because all of us, in that sense, are complicit and gray and a part of a bigger problem. So, one small shift can change someone else's life, really.
You don't really know what you’ll do in that scenario, and perhaps you are the person who's taken a backseat before, but actually, there's a hope that after seeing something like this, when you're in that position, you might be the person that at that moment steps up and says, “That's not okay.”
RAO: Exactly.
KHAN: Well, I'm at least glad about one thing — in my screen test, I was eating paan, and that got carried forward to Ravi.
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That's his trademark, for sure. [Laughs]
DESHPANDE: Yesterday, in our reception, people were asking, “Why aren't you serving paan?”
RAO: Oh, that's a nice idea! Next time.
KHAN: We can give the British an experience of what paan is.
Yes! Oh my gosh.
KHAN: One of my friends from the US was in India, and I offered her a paan, and she ate it, and she was like, “What on earth is this?”
RAO: [Laughs] The expression must have been something.
KHAN: She was thinking that you've put some, you know, when you do witchcraft.
DESHPANDE: Magic potion.
KHAN: Some feather off an owl, or something — nails that you’ve just cut fresh, and all that. So she was like, “I feel like I’m eating something really strange!” [Laughs]
It is like an explosion.
KHAN: It explodes, yeah.
Lost Ladies is available to stream on Netflix now.
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Laapataa Ladies
Comedy
Drama
In a vibrant and heartfelt story, two young women from a rural Indian village go missing on the eve of their weddings. The community is thrown into chaos as the families of the brides grapple with their sudden disappearance, leading to a whimsical exploration of love, hope, and personal freedom.
- Director
- Kiran Rao
- Cast
- Nitanshi Goel , Sparsh Shrivastav , Pratibha Ranta , Chhaya Kadam , Ravi Kishan , Geeta Agrawal Sharma , Satendra Soni , Abeer Jain
- Runtime
- 122 Minutes
- Writers
- Biplab Goswami , Divyanidhi Sharma , Sneha Desai
- Studio(s)
- Aamir Khan Productions , Kindling Productions
- Distributor(s)
- Yash Raj Films
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- Interviews
- Movie
- Laapataa Ladies
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